Curious Worldview

#UkraineRussiaWar (+100 Days) - Alexander Kucherenko | Checking In From Eastern Ukraine

• Ryan Faulkner-Hogg • Episode 91

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🎙️: https://atlasgeographica.com/alexander-kucherenko-ukraine-war/

On The Ukraine War From A Ukrainian Perspective. Alexander Kucherenko is a Ukrainian located in Poltava, a large city in the east of Ukraine between Kyiv and Kharkiv.

In this conversation, Alexander and I speak about how he smuggled his family out of Ukraine, what Alexander has learned about humanity in the last 100 days, as well as some of the heroic and some of the horrific stories from the Ukraine war so far.

In This Podcast With Alexander Kucherenko, You Can Expect To Hear About…

  • Smuggling His Family Out Of Ukraine.
  • What He’s Learned In The Last 100 Days.
  • The Daily Anxiety Of War.
  • Alexander’s Fundraising Initiative.
  • & Lots More…

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  • 00:00 – Introduction
  • 02:19 – Smuggling His Family Out Of Ukraine.
  • 13:29 – What Have You Learned About Humanity In The Last 100 Days?
  • 17:06 – Hoodies For Goodies… Alexander’s Fundraising Campaign.
  • 28:36 – Change In Labour Force & Cost Of Goods In Ukraine.
  • 38:19 – The Daily Anxiety Of War + The Heroics & Horror Of The Eastern Occupation.
  • 54:59 – What Makes Ukraine Exceptional? How Does This End With Oligarchs, Zelensky, War, etc?
  • 1:37:12 – Afterthoughts.

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Links To Alexander Kucherenko

Instagram – @oleksandrkucherenko

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SPEAKER_00

The following is a conversation with Alexander Kucherenko. Oleksander first appeared on the podcast uh about a week or two after the invasion of Ukraine. He is a Ukrainian living in Poltova, which is a eastern city in uh Ukraine. And he's someone I've been keeping in contact with just to understand what it might be uh looking like from the Ukrainian perspective on the ground there. He has organized this amazing, amazing fundraising initiative, which so far has raised more than 20,000 euros, where he is literally getting messages from his friends and friends of friends who are serving in the front lines of things that they need. And he goes, Okay, let me go and get it, and it's goes directly to them. So if you're thinking about charity, it's the most direct application of your money that I think you could possibly come across when it comes to this conflict. Links to the contact information and uh ways to help Alexander is at the top of this podcast description. So as you're listening throughout and him explaining the things that they're buying and what it's going towards, um, please, you know, take note that you'll be able to find it there. In this podcast, Alexander and I speak about how he smuggled his family out of Ukraine, um, what he's learnt about humanity over the last 100 days, all of the good, but then also all of the bad. A bit of the economic situation on the ground, how the cost of living has changed, um, and as well some of the horrors of war, but also um a great story of the heroes of war. Um and then finally we spend the last 30 to 40 minutes speaking about what is it about Ukraine that makes it so exceptional throughout this conflict. Are they, you know, what what where did where does this strong sense of patriotism come from? Is it a cultural thing? Um is it um does it have something to do with Ukraine? Does it have something to do with the people? Does it have something to do with the history? Is it a little bit of all of it? Um it was very interesting to hear Alexander uh reflect on that very question because I think for us, um, and I'm assuming that there aren't many Ukrainian listeners to this podcast, but for the rest of us, uh Ukraine's really been held up as this amazing example of resilience uh in the last 100 days, and you know, for good reason, clearly. But now, the following is a conversation with Alexander Kucherenko. With no further ado, here is the man himself. Alexander, it's been actually today marks 100 days since the invasion. Yeah. So just off the top, you know, how are you and and how is your family?

SPEAKER_01

I'm lucky to be safe and uh and and and sound, my family as well. Uh we are all good, uh doing whatever we can to support the fastest victory for Ukraine.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, and so uh tell me a little bit what that looks like. Sort of you you smuggled your family out. Do you want to say the story of how they did that and how that might be a reflection of how millions of other families have had to work in Ukraine?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, uh our story is uh it it may sound a bit uh you know um extraordinary for for people who live normal life, but comparing to other stories in Ukraine, that's just uh was uh easy walk, uh so to say. Yeah, we we uh the day when Russians hit um uh atomic station with a tank. Uh that day I decided I have to move my family as far as I can from uh from Poltava because you never know. And it was still not clear if the onland troops will make it to Poltava. They were like uh hundred kilometers or or less away from from the city, so it was not clear what will happen next. So we just packed and I drive them to the border. It took us normal it normally it takes like 15 hours of drive, but it took us like 45 or 50 hours of drive that the same the same distance. It was uh a bit a bit difficult. It was uh still winter, uh like well it was in March actually, but but it was still cold and snowy, and so we packed all our family, including pets, two dogs, two cats, and my son, my my wife, and uh her parents. We packed it in two cars and we drive it through through all of Ukraine to western border border and which country border? Uh it was Hungary. It was Hungary because we have a friend in Budapest. Uh so from the border they went to directly to Budapest to our friend, then stayed there for a night, and uh from there they went to northern Italy. It's uh South Tyrol province. Um yeah, and they stayed there for all the time.

SPEAKER_00

So talk to me about the 45-hour drive. So what did you see and and were the were the moments where you were worried and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, it was it was worrying from the very beginning. Uh we planned everything we packed uh cars and we planned that we go together with other families. It was uh planned to have like 10 cars in uh in like together, going together. And uh the first thing was that when we wake up, uh like yesterday it was plus plus seven or plus eight degrees and everything was sunny, and then next morning when we plan to to uh depart early, we wake up and it's like 10 centimeters of snow and and like minus one. So part of our group who were on other cars they even managed to switch to summer tires before uh leaving. So in just in case that they will go further to Europe so they don't have to like try on winter tires. Yeah, and they didn't make it through the first uh few kilometers, so they had to go back and and change tires.

SPEAKER_00

Shit, that would have been dramatic, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and they were waiting for them uh no we just we just go further, uh but we we we we go slow so they could make it and and and like yeah uh yeah so first day we drived like uh 250 or 300 kilometers that's all uh it was the the main road was all full of uh people leaving Ukraine. It was like three rows of cars in one way and just one row backwards. So we didn't take that main road because it was crazy, people were getting angry to each other, and uh they were you know uh taking over each other and they were uh messing with the people on the uh the standpoints uh where army was checking documents and everything, so it was a bit uh nervous, and we went using small roads, so that's why it took so long because the roads were bad and uh we couldn't go fast, we we we just like could make 90 kilometer per hour the top speed.

SPEAKER_00

And what did you see along the way? Did you see a lot of devastation or did it?

SPEAKER_01

No no we we went to the western part, so we saw just we saw just uh villages and we saw scared people. Uh we were surprised by the level of u unity of Ukrainians. Uh it was uh heartbreaking to see when you're driving on this rural roads. There are no fancy gas stations where you can get a coffee and croissant and everything. So uh you you don't like you don't have a chance to to stop by and uh have a rest or something. And what people did locals on in these small villages, they just uh made uh pit stops for travelers. They they set up a kind of a tent and with a warm tea and with some food with uh free fruits and everything, and they literally begged us to stop and and take a rest and eat there. And you know when uh old man stands with uh all that he has is just apples, and he's standing on the side of the road and asking people to stop over and take some apples from him, just like that's everything he can do, and yeah, we were just uh crying. Uh it was it was difficult. Yeah, we so so for overnight we stopped at the kindergarten because all hotels and all um apartments were booked all over the way. So the only chance to have a uh night sleep was to uh use volunteering contacts. So we we stopped over in kindergarten and slept on floor with other families there. Uh then next day we stopped over in another city with friends who who managed to uh just in a short notice of a few hours they managed to organize uh overnight stay for 15 people uh and we all stayed in apartments and houses of their friends and relatives and it was so also so um warm welcome. When we were driving uh near Vinnitsa we saw two rockets in the sky, uh Russian rockets heading to Vinnitsa airport, and uh in 15 minutes we got news that uh I guess four or five rockets hit that airport, so we literally saw them coming. Uh with us there was also a family who just gave birth to their kid, and the kid uh two or three days old was driving all the way through this you imagine 50 hours of drive with and they have like they have three kids so uh three kids, one of them is three days old, and all this cold uh icy road, yeah. It was a bit scary to drive at night, for example, when it's like 10 or 11 at night, and you just uh drive through small villages and uh everything is dark, and you just uh from from the darkness someone with a gun uh come comes out and stops you to check. That was a bit scary, especially when you drive with children in car. Yeah, but uh those people were all Ukrainian uh soldiers uh just checking up, so yeah, it it felt safe. So the most the most uh disturbing what I saw was these lines of cars going west. It was uh it was uh the gas stations were empty. You didn't have a chance to refuel normally, so you had to uh look for gas. You look for diesel for example for our car.

SPEAKER_00

Where where do you find it if the gas station is closed?

SPEAKER_01

Uh yeah, you just if you're lucky some of the gas stations are still have some some some fuel. You you can you can go uh like 10 or 15 kilometers away from your road and then uh you can find a gas station there. Or or we also took some fuel with us in uh in like canisters.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but 45 hours driving, you must have gone through three or four tanks.

SPEAKER_01

Um no, actually uh uh it's like it's it's the the time of drive is long, but distance is slow, and when you go slow, uh you you don't spend much fuel. So uh yeah, it was okay. Uh I think two two tanks. I I I rent uh on two tanks because uh I have um diesel.

SPEAKER_00

You mentioned the old man, you know, the only thing he has to offer is I mean, apart from his support, but the only thing he can give someone is maybe these apples, and he's on the side of the road pleading with you to take them. Um so what have you learned about uh humanity? Uh you've seen clearly amazing um gestures of humanity. Um I'm assuming maybe some selfishness from some Ukrainians as well. Um what have you how has the last hundred days sort of shifted your worldview when you think about it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, um th you know the most common uh feeling now among all Ukrainians, at least most of Ukrainians all over the world, is that uh a bit of shame that we don't do enough for other Ukrainians and for for the country. And uh the reason for that feeling comes from seeing such examples. When we when you see someone giving the last uh to others, not thinking about themselves, you you of course you compare it to what you do and and and you think like okay he has almost nothing and he he is doing this and I have this and that and um what can I do and why I do so small um yeah so the main shift is that is that you know war it lights up uh the best and the worst uh the worst uh sides of uh people and and and I'm happy that we have so much good in us and that the people around the world also have so much love and support to us. And yeah, so uh yeah I'm I'm surprised with that. I didn't expect that much support. Even uh when I'm start I started this campaign, the comments I receive when when I get money to my PayPal, these comments just uh break my heart. It's it's crazy how what they see you you get uh hundred and fifty or or um or twenty dollars to your PayPal as a donation, and then what they what they write, this is just regular people from from all over the world, and what they say, someone say, um I'm teaching uh refugees, uh Ukrainian refugees, uh kids in uh Holland, and here is my hundred to support you what you're doing. And someone says, uh we always stand with you, we follow you daily, make Putin pay, final victory will come for Ukraine. And you know this these comments just uh yeah, they they just raise the spirit so much. I plan to make a separate post about it and then just um to to let my friends know and see how much support we we receive.

SPEAKER_00

So tell me about this um initiative and this campaign then.

SPEAKER_01

Uh yeah, so basically first first few weeks, first months, a lot of people uh asked how they can help, but it was not clear yet uh to how they can help, except uh sending funds to to the main big uh accounts for example of Ministry of Defense or big uh big funds like Pertullah Font and Save Life Foundation, uh there were l not much other initiatives and uh since then it uh happened so that um many friends of my family, many people that I know they went to army and uh when they went there they gave us some feedback. For example, we don't have uh something like a Kevlar um helmet or nice and lightweight uh body armor or for example drone or thermal scope or a 4x4 vehicle to evacuate wounded and it was too long to wait for big foundations to provide that and it was too long to wait for government to provide it, so we started to help directly. So when you know someone who is in need, you start to help him. And uh when we ran out of uh funds of personal funds, we started to collect it from friends, relatives, and uh and from people we know abroad, from from the Ukrainians abroad or from colleagues, from from customers, from uh from everyone who has uh a chance to support. Um sorry there is a car. Yeah. So when when we collected first uh last month we collected like uh 20,000 euro or something uh in general. We we brought eight thermal scopes, two uh 4x4 cars. Uh we brought some I mean boots, some some clothes, food and uh energy um you know snacks and everything. So uh and this time we started another campaign and I thought that it is not that uh easy for uh foreigners to just send money and uh and uh don't get anything in return. So I thought it would be uh more it will make people feel more uh related, more uh connected when they receive something in return that they can see and then they can show to other people and that will probably motivate their friends and relatives and anyone they will meet to also donate and support this initiative. So we printed out some t-shirts and hoodies, and then my colleague and I uh we were thinking about the name and we came up with this hoodies for goodies. Uh so yeah, the idea is now that every month we will uh issue a limited number of branded hoodies. Uh we can uh probably even state that July or June 2022 uh campaign number three. Uh it's and then one of uh 20 hoodies, uh like you know, like this uh fancy branded cars, expensive cars that what they do.

SPEAKER_00

It's such a good idea, man. You're um you're appealing to the signaling value. Like that's I think that's such a terrific idea, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_00

It's a limited edition, so so people can signal later on and say, hey, look, yeah, yeah. Look how early I donated to this guy.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so they feel they feel connected, they feel related, they they can uh come confirm that at this a certain period of time they uh donated uh and the basing on based on is it hoodie or is it t shirt or is it a shopper bag, uh they can show off and say I donated this much and I donated this much, and and I think that would work out. So I promote it, yeah. Yeah, I promote it on my Instagram for now, but I I plan to make a website as well.

SPEAKER_00

And we should appeal to the audience as well, uh, those who can assist, I suppose, with maybe design options. We have we have we have uh where would you need assistance apart from don donations?

SPEAKER_01

Uh the best would be to share it, spread the information. Uh um my idea is to accept for donations uh that will also help local manufacturers and local designers. Uh we have very talented local designers in Paltava, and I will pay them for their work. Uh so I will pay them from for their work and then uh I will buy hoodies from local manufacturer and then um it they will make a really really small discounted price for everything. So most of the funds will go for uh volunteering initiatives and just just like I think 5% will be uh spent on the actual cost, but still it will support uh families of people who work there in Platawa. That would be so so just spreading the word and and supporting and keeping an eye in on uh the our progress, that would be the best support we can get from from our audience.

SPEAKER_00

Man, it's um it's really incredible the fact that you have been able to generate this much energy towards the cause. I mean, you've already raised 20,000 euros, it's exceptional stuff. Um and I I think it's also great um because when I was speaking to my girlfriend about it, you know, there is a um there's such a distance between donating to a giant branded charity organization because you hear so much about the corruption and you don't know whether the money is actually going to go towards a cause that you necessarily might think it does, and it can sort of just relieve your conscious, uh conscious conscious, relieve your conscious momentarily that you've you know given to the cause. But I think the fact that it's just you and a couple of other people directly spending the money, and like you sent me photos of the cars that you bought and stuff, it's so cool that um and I guess it's also a a feature of of modernity, you know, and warfare going forward and humanitarian issues going forward. You can have that direct accountability, like immediately. Look, this is what your money bought us, you know. That's amazing. Um, and so that's super cool. Uh I I think that the limited edition merch is genius as well, because it just ticks all the right boxes, you can also charge more for it then per per item. So terrific stuff. Um tell tell us where the campaign is, sort of right now. How much money have you raised in total? Do you have a goal? Um you know what are the socials.

SPEAKER_01

So uh right now, uh I came up with this idea like two weeks ago, and since then I was able to print uh like um ten hoodies and uh maybe uh uh twenty t-shirts and then and like fift ten or twelve uh shopper bags. So I I didn't know how it will uh end up, and I didn't know I didn't have this idea of limited edition and every month's uh issue. I didn't have it like till a few days ago because before I was just thinking to uh I was the the initial intent was to give something in return to people who donate because I feel so grateful and I feel that people need something to to look at and to touch and to feel that they are connected, but uh now yeah we didn't the goal was to to collect funds for fueling cars. Uh we bought uh we and our partners uh because uh the the main group is four people and every one uh of these four is collecting funds from wherever we can and uh we also help other small groups like us to to go forward with the initiatives. So this time we will deliver four cars to Ukraine, uh two pickup trucks from UK donated uh part of money was donated to our group, part of money was brought uh by other volunteers. Uh one guy, Ukrainian guy, uh took it uh from UK to Italy. Uh so he drived it himself and also filled it with some goods for uh soldiers in Kharkiv. So this car will go to Kharkiv and there's another one coming. So my idea was to at least collect for fuel because we need about 350 euro to fuel one car uh from Europe to Ukraine or to Kharkiv directly to Boltava or further. So my idea was just at least to collect for diesel for these cars. But uh since a few days ago uh we already uh collected enough to fuel the cars, and we still have money to uh partially pay for drone and also for a tablet to use with together with this drone. Uh so next month we will have exact goals, but this time we just uh it was a bit spontaneous. We we were uh we were covering that requests we receive from uh from people we know on the front lines. We just get requests from them, and then we hope that we can collect uh funds for them. Uh sometimes uh we are lucky to collect it, sometimes not, but uh but I will systematize all of this uh in coming in coming days and and make it more visual and and uh easy to you've mentioned a few times um sort of the price of fuel, access to food.

SPEAKER_00

I'd be really curious to know how the cost of goods has uh changed for you in Poltava um and the anecdotes you might hear from fellow Ukrainians throughout the country. Have things become ridiculously expensive? Are there fuel shortages? Are the shelves empty? Um, how does all this look like? And if it's not empty, how the hell are things coming in there?

SPEAKER_01

Uh shelves are full. Uh fuel shortages uh yeah, there are full fuel shortages. Uh but the reason for that was that price was not like um realistic. I mean not uh because we don't buy now from Russia. So uh if uh one liter costs two euro in Europe, right? Uh why should and we buy it from Europe, how can it cost one euro in Ukraine? Where do we get that difference? So it's it's pretty logical that now uh the price uh is about two euro per per liter in Ukraine because previously it was like one euro, so it's a double double the price. Uh still people are able to there are a lot of cars driving around. Yeah, I mean where do they get uh money and fuel? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, because I imagine the majority of your country's workforce would have been sort of knocked out, so people aren't getting paid. Are there like stimulus packages that the Ukrainian government is giving out? Like how are people existing? It's been a hundred days, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Uh I don't know, to be honest. Uh it depends. If I can say for myself, I can say for people I know. Uh, for example, I know some well, I work for IT, you know. Uh I have a stable income uh despite the war and everything, so and I can work remote, so I'm lucky. My father-in-law, he has no business right now, but he has some savings, so he's spending it. I know people from Poltava, like designers and um yeah, designers mostly, who they also rely on donations uh to their design projects and they also still sell something abroad. Uh I know people from real sector of economy who for example made uh some carpentry. They don't have any work right now. They are trying to they are fighting for governmental orders, uh governmental yeah like work job but still no luck. So they are spending they are spending their savings. They are uh yeah they they just uh limited the spendings as much as possible and uh and they just use the resources they they managed to to collect previously. I mean some money they have on accounts or not non-accounts, just as uh the savings. Also, people they have um small gardens so they they cook pretty simple food uh but but like normal food, good good uh some good dishes. But if you know Ukrainian um cuisine is uh is using similar simple simple stuff like uh potato, carrot, uh just some wheat and you could you can cook uh like borsche and varenike and then you you have something to eat and um yeah and and I think very important here is that for the last 30 to 40 years, 30 to 40 years Ukrainians were living in uh in a turbulent uh environment and uh uh I've heard from people who went through uh financial crisis in 1990s that uh now it's not that bad for for those who are safe, for those who have at least some some funds, some savings, it's it's even better than it was in 1990s for for those people on the free territory of free Ukraine. Uh how people survive on occupied territories, I I don't imagine I can't even imagine. Some humanitarian aid uh goes through, some not. Uh I I don't know. Do do you know it's hard.

SPEAKER_00

Is there government stimulus? Like are they handing out unemployment benefits and stuff?

SPEAKER_01

For for those uh who are in uh regions affected by war, yes.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Also, the whole country is not considered affected by war, it's it's broken down into the the regions direct like experience direct conflict.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yes. So the the regions uh where where direct conflict happened, I mean for example we have um regions of Poltava region for example, Harky region, uh Donetsk, Luhansk region. So Poltava region was not uh affected. So in Poltava people who lost their jobs they they don't uh receive any support from government. And I also know some uh some companies who uh they cannot pay uh they cannot pay salary, but they what they do is they try to find um food packages and and uh for from donors or from uh humanitarian aid, they get these packages and then they give it to their employees. Some some companies in Poltava do so.

SPEAKER_00

Just because I I think um truck driving is the biggest employment sector in Ukraine and uh a lot of uh talk is made of the giant agriculture exports that you guys have as well. I'm not sure what that how that is reflected in the percentage of labor in the economy, but I'm just imagining that a significant proportion of uh the Ukrainian workforce who would already be on uh lower incomes might not necessarily have savings to fall back on, might necessarily have assets that they can sell, not that anyone would be wanting to buy them at the moment. It's been a hundred days, it's almost been a third of a year. Um it's it's I'm I'm surprised to hear that uh things might not necessarily be economically that that desperate, that the shelves are full, that the cost of goods hasn't skyrocketed. How do you explain all of this?

SPEAKER_01

Well uh well the the prices uh to be more cut more correct, the prices are higher, much higher. For example, last um before the war, uh average uh check uh for me when going to a supermarket was like um 500 or 1000 griena. Uh and now it's twice as much. I mean thousand to to to two so to two thousand. Uh prices are higher, but uh prices are mostly higher to products produced outside of Ukraine and manufacturers inside the country they are more or less consciousness conscious. I mean they then don't rise prices uh just because they they uh they can just because there's a uh opportunity for that. If you had three to five or I mean ten different um yogurts previously, you have now five yogurts mostly produced in Ukraine because a lot of stuff is produced in Ukraine. We have a lot of uh milk products, we have a lot of uh grain products, we have a lot of fruits, vegetables produced in Ukraine, and that makes it not that expensive because we import a lot of things. Uh for example as you can see from fuel price went up like two twice as much. So uh yeah, I think that's because um uh also also because the exchange rate is regulated a bit. Uh uh before war one euro was uh 31 grivna, now it's 36, I think. So it's a bit higher, but not dramatically high. And I think m number of factors kept it uh more or less stable. I'm not that big into uh economic uh issues, uh to be honest.

SPEAKER_00

So I I wanted to return to this and forgive me, it's a bit of a sour transition. Um but you've made a lot about the sort of uh the best of humanity that you've seen. Can you give some examples of the worst of humanity that you have seen in the last hundred days?

SPEAKER_01

Um it's not that I've seen but uh there are some people who you know still try to they are in minority I would say, but uh there are some people who were not that uh nice before war and uh as it the war it didn't start on on 24th but it got like the invasion started. So uh for example someone uh and I feel personally ashamed for these people uh because I I even don't know many of them, but I I heard stories from about Ukrainians who went out to Europe and they uh you know they overuse the uh the help they receive. For example, uh yeah, most of us are very grateful and most of us do everything to show it, uh but there are some people who, for example, they they are able to pay a rent, for example, and but they still stay with the volunteers uh apartments somewhere, or there are people who have funds but they don't help, they don't support our country.

SPEAKER_00

That that's so they sort of raise money but don't spend it on what they said they would spend it on.

SPEAKER_01

No, I they even yeah there are such examples as well who uh raise donations and then they spend it for in new stuff for themselves. That's that's sad to see, sad to see.

SPEAKER_00

That's shocking because it it it it cheapens everyone else's initiative.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, and and believe me, when when we find out these people they got punished, you know, they they uh when it comes out uh they it it doesn't go like uh smooth. So yeah, that that makes me feel sad, and that's why I want to to let know everyone who donates to our initiative uh what we do, uh what we buy, what where we spend our money for. Uh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um when we last spoke, uh it was about one or two weeks after the invasion. And um you made the comment on how you just felt constantly, every second of the day, sort of checking your phone for updates. Like there was it was impossible for anything else to be on your mind, and that was a source of an enormous fatigue. You know, just felt like that that constant anxiety of refreshing the the Twitter feed to see, alright, what's happening now? Where is the basically um given it's been a hundred days, is there any normalcy that's returned to your life? Or is it still just every free moment is thinking about the initiative, what's happening in Ukraine, what can how's my family? Um Yeah, I'm just trying to get a sense for you know, like you, like how are you going the the the yeah sorry but shockingly worded question, but I hope that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, that absolutely makes sense. You see first months or or I I can't even uh tell the exact cutoff date, but um I guess after after Russians moved uh were pushed off uh from Kyiv and from Kyiv region uh and later after after they were pushed back from Sumer region from uh from a bit of from Kharkiv. The way time goes inside our head for us it changed. We were in a quick time quick time I don't know how to explain it. I mean the the time was going it was so fooled uh filled with and fueled with events that uh it was so much information and things happening in a short term uh that uh you couldn't just uh stay calm and uh don't don't check your feed. Uh but since I mean since since a month or more ago it it changed a bit. Uh I try to work more and foc uh focus. more on um on work uh and on this initiative we started uh rather than reading news uh i try to spend like um half an hour a day reading news and then about uh half an hour uh every evening watching updates uh video updates from and comments from president from from other other guys yeah so so for me it changed a lot I don't uh scroll all the time and I have uh work to do I have shifts in my uh company uh in the company I work for I have um some changes there and also this um initiative Hoodies for goodies it m gave me some more structure in this volunteering uh things uh I mean I can organize it kind of uh a certain activity and and it has some plans and it it has some goals and it looks like a startup it's just a startup for donations yeah so so yeah uh it makes me feel better to do it. I don't worry about my family because they are in a safe place. My other family I mean my parents and my sisters and nephews and nieces they are in Paltawa but it's uh also safe now in Paltava. Yeah so time's move time moves slowly now and it's very similar to normal life except except you cannot forget about it at all and and you don't have to and you you cannot uh forget about it and um yeah we should uh speak about it and we should stay aware of what's going on.

SPEAKER_00

Do you check in or do you speak much about sort of the the mental health of the people living through it in Ukraine?

SPEAKER_01

Is it a topic of discussion that you're seeing on social media um you know like just the a reflection of the fact that people might be on edge so much and have so much attention given to them which is totally unnatural um yeah yeah yeah mostly uh um I we hear about more and more facts uh of uh total mental breaks I mean catastrophe for people who went through occupation uh I can't even imagine how they feel but the stories I hear they make me feel desperate angry and uh and uh just uh helpless when you hear about the stories they tell they they agree to their um therap therapists so they the therapists can um not not call in the names but they can share these stories and when I hear it especially that I have a son who is almost two years old and when I hear stories of children of his age being raped in front of mother's eyes and she is forced to watch I don't know that um I've cried uh all the tears out already and um I I don't know how how they will live with all of this in I mean those people who went through it I I can't imagine and the those therapists who help them they they themselves uh need help already and uh it it's so hard it's just unimaginable imaginable so yeah and and knowing this other problems for example oh I didn't see my son for months but he's safe he is okay yeah that's not a problem I mean it's all comp relative I mean okay my wife has she has to live with her mother and we didn't they didn't live together since like eight years ago and they have some conflicts like you know this um some simple conflicts on uh on a basic level that's just funny how how can we even care about it I mean so and and most of people think the same I I have from people who I know they just they when he they hear the stories from occupied territories they just everything every problem they have just become like they just become not important and also what also brings more power to to keep on doing something is stories from Azovstal I don't know I I'm sure you heard about Azovstal or no Azovstal was the the last fortress in Mariupol Mariupol so that was the big old Soviet era plant a steel plant and it was the last point where our soldiers kept the defense they were holding it for I guess for up to 80 days if I'm not mistaken with they were absolutely encircled so they they didn't have any chance of supplies except helicopters sometimes the are other crazy pilots they knew that the percentage rate for successful mission to go there and back is 10% it's 90% that they will be hit shut down and they still go voluntarily and many of them were shut down they were they were shut down and they died but some managed to bring supplies weapons and take back wounded soldiers from there it was a fortress so to say on on a on a on a seaside and it was all surrounded and as far as I know a few South soldiers were there alone together with civilians with women children uh and and old people together in shelters in bomb shelters and the territory of Azovstal was bombed by everything Russians have I mean uh they they dropped bombs like five ton bomb can you imagine a bomb that weights five tons it's like I don't know it's like three or three of this outbreak yeah yeah it's it's it's uh and they it's a special bunker bombs to to destroy bunkers and there were they they went through such uh hell they didn't have enough medicine and they had to uh uh go through amputations without even uh having uh any kind of uh any kind of anaesthetic any kind of anything so they they were cutting off hands and and legs just to avoid uh you know death and um and they were store they they were uh they were uh streaming sometimes and giving interviews from there can you imagine they they did they even managed to to tell stories how they how they do there and they said how they um got ammunition uh couple of Ukrainian soldiers were hunting Russians around the territory of this uh plant uh few people with uh with a javelin or something similar to javelin like even smaller and and more not that complicated um I don't know like a bazooka I don't know yeah like a bazooka yeah so say so if two or three people with bazooka and uh shotguns uh running out of uh ballots they were following armored vehicles of Russians so you can you imagine an armored vehicle with the 10 or 15 people on it riding away from two or three people with the bazooka and um and and these people are shoot down this shut down this vehicle and those um uh all the troops left uh a lot of weapons and supplies and just ran away from them and these guys are happy to have this ammunition and and and and bullets and everything and and and uh can you imagine that that's how they got uh everything so this is crazy and when I hear uh these stories and then um for example uh I compare it to what I've gone through I've I've gone through nothing actually to comparing to that uh so when I need for example drive uh eight hours and then uh eight hours more because uh to to get a car faster to Ukraine and get it to the front lines that's that's nothing I don't have to fight for my life I I have all my all my hands and blacks with me and and and I didn't go through that much pain so yeah these stories just inspire and and these guys are real life heroes.

SPEAKER_00

Though those stories are you know like um the the great war stories that are told from World War II or or or earlier things that sort of live in our memory that we learn about in in history there's something about um what's happening in Ukraine now which I don't know if it's uh you you have a better insight into this than I do but is it something particular about the Ukrainian spirit or is it just how people respond when they have all other options taken away? So for example you know with a lot of my mates from different countries and I'm a bit ashamed to admit it to you but the consensus is like I don't know if I would do that for Australia. You know I don't know if I would die for Australia and similar sentiment is felt among the Swedes um and the Brits that I've spoken to. And it seems like there is this level of um of of patriotism and the sort of courage and and pride in in to in being a Ukrainian that has just shocked the Russian forces completely but then also taken a lot of the world for uh by surprise as well. So I mean is there something special about Ukraine or or do you think it's it's like this is just how people react when they're given no other the choice I don't know if I can even um say what I think about how other other people other nations would act in this case I hope no one will have a uh such situation and that there will be no cause to check it.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know I actually honestly I don't know how would other people act I I don't know because uh I know for sure that uh those who had previous experience of dealing with Russians of conflicts with Russians they would fight till the end Lithuanians Latvians Estonians um Czech Finns uh Georgians I guess uh Polish people Slovakia all the neighboring states who know what it was like in a Soviet Union who had previously a lot of conflicts with Russians I think they would fight till the end this the same way as we do that's that's my assumption but on the other hand this conflict goes back to thousand years because uh uh through whole all of the history Russians steal uh from Ukraine uh everything even the name but uh for how how can you uh how can you rule a country which is coast uh which is called in uh in uh which was originally founded uh from a capital of another country so for normal people there's no problem I mean uh but when you rule it in in um as an autocrat uh when you rule as a dictator you need this uh place of power to be captured and for through all of the history they were trying to control Kyiv they were trying to they were trying to just erase Ukrainian language Ukrainian history uh if if you look I I can send you over if you want there are some like studies on this on this uh confirming that there were so many um laws by Russian Empire by Soviet Union and it fueled it fueled uh negative uh negativity between our nations and uh but ukrainians they are we are very very calm and we are very very how do you say it um well easy going we are not uh we are not uh we we don't like to be in a quarrel or in a conflict with someone so uh we in some sort it's a bad uh bad uh quality because we can we can stay we can stay uh calm uh when we get um something bad in our you know uh we got um like they they do something bad to us and we don't respond because we we say okay it's not that bad we can live with it and and but still we remain our uh inner inner self we we don't we don't become Russians even though they try to do it for centuries and then uh terpina um I don't know how it's uh I can't I can just get this with the English word uh not calm patience yeah we are very patient and and and at some point this patience uh it just ends and um how to say yeah what what's uh what's at the other end of patience like resistance or uh well when can you know this type of person who is calm and patient and and and and quiet and but just normal guy like in school there's just normal guy who who is well fit who is well fit but he he is he's doing minding his own business he's not he's not into any quarrels or or with someone else and there's always a bully bully bully who is who is who is ticking him and who is ticking everyone else and this calm guy he will just stay stay quiet just second he will stay calm but at some point he will just quietly come over to that bully and and smash his head with uh you know with a with a stone and that's all and that that's how it ends so you're saying Ukraine is the is the quiet kid yeah ukraine is a quiet kid but but when you the quiet kid runs out of uh all of this um patience patience uh this quiet kid will c quietly uh just uh destroy enemy that's all and and the the difference also the difference between russians and ukrainians I don't know if you saw these funny videos when on Russian streets uh someone says hey uh do you love Russia yes yes I love Russia and what can you do for your country I will do everything I will die for my country okay then um we have a list uh of uh patriots uh and in case of um of war we will uh uh call these uh people on this list uh to be the first volunteers to go for to war and uh do you mind um placing your name on this list and he says oh no sorry I I gotta go and then and then it was so fun to to watch this but then someone tried to remake it in Ukraine and and it was interesting what will happen then and in Ukraine the responses were not that emotional they said hey what do what can you do for Ukraine and uh and these guys asked what what do I have to do I mean like I I will do what I can like they didn't didn't do like I will die for you I will do have it they don't show up they just say yeah well I I will do what I can and and then they ask so we have a list uh to to go to army are you ready and most of them they just like hmm well okay okay we'll go if if it's necessary I will go so it's it's more like uh being of um word and action being aligned what what you say and what you do is aligned uh and it it feels bad authenticity skin in the game yeah yeah you you you keep it you keep keep your word what what you say that you you do the same that's that's something that Ukrainians uh most of ukrainians too of of course there are people who are like you know this some minority who is not fitting in the general um portrait yeah but yeah in mostly well you know every time I tune in to some sort of media to do with Ukraine the message is consistent that people are blown away by the Ukrainian resilience and absolutely in awe of the sort of courage that regular Ukrainians are showing against what was at first perceived as the stronger force the Russian army perhaps now might be proven to in fact be the inferior force um but I don't know if it is something exceptional about Ukraine uh whether it's the fact that in your you know in only in one or two generations above you you know these your family had to endure similar um similarly horrific uh circumstances and maybe there's something to be said about that for you know as an Australian my great grandfather served in a war but my father and my grandfather haven't and we've never had to experience national conflict you know conflict on a stage that's bigger than just individual with another person.

SPEAKER_00

And so I don't know maybe that is something there is something exceptional about uh the Ukrainian culture but uh you know you can you can I'm sure you've seen this as well but it's being celebrated uh pretty pretty consistently which is a pretty amazing thing and and so that brings me to um the final question which is how do you see um Ukraine what does Ukraine look like once you get through this and and and how do you see yourself getting through it as well um you know your

SPEAKER_01

probably as best informed as anyone is because you're in the country consistently speaking to people that are actually uh the ones receiving the information so how does Ukraine get through it do you get through it what does it look like on the other end um you know w how do you how are you thinking about all that uh before jumping on thank you for the question I before jumping on it I was uh just I just got some interesting fact uh to your previous uh question uh do you know this uh strategic game Cossacks no no no uh Cossacks maybe it's called something else uh yeah maybe it's called something else uh in in your market let me let me look it up how do you spell it Cossacks okay Cossacks video game okay uh never played it but it looks like fuck what was that game called like a s a military strategy game um yeah a military strategy game world of Warcraft before it was the similar very similar to Warcraft yeah yeah yeah it's like world of empires that's the one age of empires yeah very similar yeah so the point is this in this uh game you can choose a different nation and play for Germans for French for uh English for Ukrainian for all the variety of nations you can choose any nation and then you build your build up your city you build up your army and then you you attack neighbors and so as it was in the middle age and the funny thing about Ukraine because every country has some kind of a special um quarters and in ukrainian ukrainians they uh they were this the only uh nation in this game where uh there you have units who are uh just uh uh civil uh units uh just uh farmers and you have uh warriors you have uh all kinds of warriors there but the only nation who uh whose uh farmers they don't give up when there's no warrior around it so for example you are invading Ukraine in this game and you killed all the army and then you come to the field and there are farmers and farmers will start fighting your army in any other country uh it wasn't possible in any other country when you killed all the army farmers automatically they changed the flag and they become your farmers and they started to bring you uh the um all the food and everything but ukrainian farmers will fight and die and eventually you will just wipe out all the population but you can you can wipe out everyone but do they and this is probably the the heart of the question do they fight till the end because they love Ukraine or do they fight to the end because that's a part of being a Ukrainian it's a it's in the culture that you never ever give up and your word is your absolute bond. So is it a patriotism or is it a cultural reason that Ukraine has just been so resistant it's it's it consists of different layers at the bottom there's a cultural line so and now we're switching to your last question what will happen with Ukraine what I think I think that in the future Ukraine will be a country of uh there's uh there's this name uh Kurkul Kurkul is how Russians called uh wealthy wealthy farmers in Ukraine ukraine originally uh consisted of many many many independent farmers many many independent businessmen so uh people lived in a small communities and every community was independent and every community was wealthy and the Soviet Soviet uh government when in 1930s in the beginning of 1930s there was this uh genocide uh where where it was artificial starving uh of uh of people in ukraine so what they did they every independent um farmer uh they took away all the uh all the assets from them and they called them kurkuli kurkuli was a bad word it's it's like it's it it meant it meant someone who is uh uh wealthy and who doesn't want to share with others basically it's uh just uh a successful successful uh businessman I would say or successful farmer who who doesn't who who minds his own business and who doesn't want anyone else to interfere in it who who trades uh fair but uh he he has his own for example even some kind of a security or something so in future I think Ukraine will be a country of kurkuli it's a country of uh small and medium businesses a lot of small and medium businesses who will be wealthy who will be uh very um mod modest uh very um uh yeah humble modest uh ump umpo open hearted uh very um uh ready to share with others because they will be wealthy themselves because it's in it's in the nature of uh of ukrainians to to work and to to to to get better house better car better everything and then we are also very open to sharing it with our neighbors and with our friends but also these people these small and medium businesses uh they will all uh armored as hell they will have they will have all sorts of uh affordable all sorts of legal weapons possible and and i i I can say for myself I will have a house with uh you know with uh with a lot of guns and and and and and and I will have a safe place in this house and and I hope it will never be used but uh same for my friends we will as as soon as we can we will uh get all kind of uh means to protect ourselves so so so uh answering your questions why this happens uh for example in that game that uh that feature is available not just because uh developers want it to do so it's it's based on facts on on historical facts uh and and on the other hand all other nations had uh there's there's uh an upgrade um upgrade for 18th century where you get m better equipment you get better science and everything ukraine didn't have that because uh in the 18th century uh it was not independent and it didn't have all that kind of uh privilege of uh better science and everything so um yeah so that that that's also some historical historical thing about it so I I um I think when we finish when we win we will rebuild slowly it will take years to rebuild everything and I think uh it will take decades to build up a strong economy but um everyone will work on it and uh and living in Europe showed that uh um you know because it was a common uh thought uh between uh among Ukrainians that Europe is kind of um a heaven I mean it's it's a perfect place where everything everything works and and you have a good medicine and you have everything you have and banks work but in reality uh Europe is a perfect place yes and I love uh Europe and uh all the countries that support Ukraine and and the people of Ukraine I'm very grateful for for it but in reality it comes out that um it kind of uh everything kind of uh works in Europe but you cannot solve uh fast uh any of your issues here um and in Ukraine on the other hand it kind of uh doesn't work but you can solve anything yeah it it's it's strange but it's true for example uh you want to go visit a doctor for Ukrainians it's uh use used um practice uh when you have your own doctor uh in a chat you just chat a doctor and they respond you instantly and if you feel bad that they you need to come and visit you usually book a visit for the same day in a few hours and you go and visit your doctor and here my colleague went to Sweden for example and she was like I feel very bad I need to go to hospital and she's calling to the hospital hi and they say can you eat and she said yes can you drink yes can you breathe yes so you're okay yeah but don't compare to the Swedish system then I'm not saying it's it's bad I I I see it's it's uh in a some sort some way it's logical you don't have to overcrowd hospitals and you don't have to visit it too often but um it's just something yeah but isn't that I mean that's like to me that sounds like the um trappings of a developing nation you know you get to you get to maybe cut the bureaucratic corners that you can't just cut in Sweden.

SPEAKER_00

You know they just will not no matter how rich or powerful you are these bureaucratic processes exist for you as well. What about with Ukraine the fact that before the war there was extraordinary levels of political corruption and as well a very um present you know oligarchic class um you know the the the the problem of oligarchs isn't exclusive to Russia in a lot of the form of Soviet Union elsewhere as well.

SPEAKER_01

Do you think that what uh Ukraine is going through now will maybe level out their influence in the society that perhaps Ukraine might be more united to therefore maybe um stomp out m less corruption and hope and maybe the oligarchs as well perhaps might lose some of their power and influence do you think this conflict will maybe create a more fair Ukraine less corrupt I hope so and and most of people I I I know and most of people I I listen to or hear some you know we have a special um there's a Ukrainian national anti corruption committee they run every few weeks every week they run a video interview with the local um thought leaders mind leader um leaders of thought leaders yeah thought leaders thought leaders yeah so they run this uh long interviews uh discussing uh future of ukraine what shifts happened and um and now and and what future is waiting for us and everyone says that uh the biggest fear for everyone in Ukraine is that we go back to the same uh corruption after the war as for today uh every oligarch every every person in ukraine have the same almost the same uh rules almost the same conditions and if you had if you had a lot of money before the war it doesn't matter right now and you can use the same opportunity if you if you had nothing if you were broke you have the same opportunity as everyone else and you can start a business you can start you can go to uh to for for a new job you can so there are tons of opportunities uh that will open for everyone in Ukraine and this in some sort it aligned uh uh aligned uh this you don't have this big um split gap between uh lower class and high class you most more or less we're all in the middle class right now so I hope it will remain the same and uh and I really think uh it will change a lot of people's minds and and tolerance to corruption and it it I I hope it will change and interesting also what I noticed that uh we are a bit of idealists Ukrainians are a bit idealists when we speak about uh something that we don't like for example there were so much bureaucracy in governmental services you had to go somewhere take your passport and take this paper from one department go to another department you need to you need to uh bureaucratic visits you have to stay in a queue you have to and now it's all it's all over here I have a governmental uh app I have uh I have my passport I have my vaccination certificate I have my uh private um company uh details here I can pay taxes from here I can uh I can ask for all kinds of documents from here for example if I need uh for to for for travel inside the country I can show my driving license over here here's what vaccination certificate I don't know if you can see it I I have everything in in in a in a click of uh finger I can solve a lot of issues here and uh this is something impossible in Europe and and also we have uh very very uh modern banking also mobile banking uh which is also comparing to what we have here uh my my family has here in northern Italy it's it's just crazy yeah italy Italy could be the last uh to move into mobile services yeah yeah but I I I to to to echo your point of how perhaps Ukrainian income distribution could flatten out and there could be less corruption I I can actually see it really happening as well because you know name a more popular leader in the world than Zelensky right now.

SPEAKER_00

So internationally extremely popular. Domestically uh you can confirm whether this is true or not but domestically we get the sense that he's extremely popular. So the reason why beforehand he might have been susceptible to corruption is simply because he didn't have the power to say no or he didn't have the influence to sort of leverage it over them. But if you come out on the other side of this conflict, this war, Zelensky's still around he's still in power you'd have to have some serious leverage to get anything over him since he really truly has the support of his whole country the international community and so I can just see purely of that fact alone if the man wants reform the man can get it. He's popular enough and from all signals it looks like he's uh he wants that as well um so yeah maybe it could be extremely optimistic times how do you see the war progressing? So we're a hundred days into it now um I understand that you're totally resolute that Ukraine will win but how do you see that win eventuating?

SPEAKER_01

What happens between now and the end and when does it end and I know you don't know this question no one knows the answers to this question but how do you see it given the conversations you're having with fellow Ukrainians just one small remark about Zelensky you are right he has a lot of support inside and he has a lot of uh power right now and he has support of international support and he has expectations for him are also very high and uh you see we are uh we are expecting a lot from him and if he does not fulfill that expectations uh the love of of of nation will quickly uh s change for not love so yeah so because um yeah uh I think there are there are some some groups of uh players inside the politicum of Ukraine right now and uh in my opinion one of the possible leaders who might also he is in a Zelensky team but he might be individual player later as well he shows a lot of um he gains a lot of credits for what he does is a minister of uh um trans minister of digital transformation fedorov he's doing uh awesome things he so I think if if he stays in the team and and if they work together closely I I hope they will manage to to do a lot of reforms and people will support it but but if Zelensky I hope it it I hope it doesn't happen but happen but we always prepare for wars so if Zelensky is will do something negative after a war ends he will be quickly removed as a president and someone else more eligible will be chosen. Yeah that that that's just a small remark for to your comment and and about the war I'm listening to all kinds of analysts I'm not a a war expert myself but as it looks and what people say and what I hear is that we now we have some uh Western weapons uh already at the battlefield and even without those that weapons we managed to uh move Russians from Kiev region but now with these weapons we are able to more or less stabilize the front line and and uh to avoid Russian advances into our territory so what else will happen is that more weapons will arrive more long range artillery will arrive because now uh they can hit for 40 kilometers and we can hit for 40 kilometers but they have they outnumber our artillery with their artillery in in like in in many times and like if we have one they have 10 guns long range uh guns and now as we expect arriving from the US and from UK as well long range artillery that will hit for 70 kilometers this will give us an advantage and we will be able to hit back without risking our artillery and our people and we will be able to shoot at their uh supply supply uh supplies they are they are like back of their army Uh like um yeah we will be able to to stop their invasion completely when these weapons arrive and they should arrive like I don't know by the end of June I think or or somewhere in July. It takes a lot of time uh for delivery. And as soon as this shift will happen, I hope we will start to deoccupy our territories. But as you it's it's pretty logical to assume that for 90 days they had a chance to you know to make some kind of preparations to defend uh the territories uh they were able to occupy. So it will not go fast. Uh I hope that till the end of this year we will see some good progress in Donbass region and probably Crimea, I don't know. But uh yeah, I'm not sure about it. And I'm not a war expert, so it's it's my word is just word of a civilian.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but also you know, you're as informed as anyone else might be. Um and all the prominent political commentators, you know, they they're gonna revise their statements about 20 times between now and the end. So it is anyone's best guess, but um, I'm just curious to see how you're thinking about it. And so you think perhaps this will not resolve itself within the year, it might end up dragging on for a longer time.

SPEAKER_01

I think yes, and from based on what I hear from people who are there at the front lines, uh they say uh it's not so fast and and you cannot move fast there. And uh we we showed Ukrainian army showed a good progress because uh our progress was measured in the terms how fast they invade and how fast we can stop them, how how uh efficient we can stop them. But now uh the to to attack uh it will not be that fast, and we also cannot uh shell our cities with our citizens there. Uh what they did to Mariupol, they just shelled everything and then therefore they advanced fast. City city fights are the most uh difficult ones and the most bloody fights uh possible. It's you you have to fight for every single street, every single building, and it's take a lot of time for it. So I don't think we will progress like fantastically fast, like in a month or so. I expect that till the end of this year we will show at least some progress and we will uh at least deoccupy Herson and then something else, I don't know. Yeah, but it can it can last long.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I I interviewed a guy called Michael Hilliard, who's a geopolitical analyst on this um podcast, and he said that same points that you just made, that um the warfare, uh the city, fighting in a city, um, is the hardest and the most um and the most deadly. And he said that the Russian army might not be capable of actually uh winning that fight against the Ukrainian army, but what they can do is what he called the car park strategy, like in Mariupol. They can just flatten every single building and then drive through, and that is obviously you know the worst case outcome because that's how all the civilians get roped up into it. Um but yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and we cannot uh apply the same tactics. So what we will have to do is we will have to act smarter and and and we have to act more carefully because and and I expect very bad things from Russians when they will go back and they will they will just destroy all the supply possible uh sources of supply as they did, as they did in uh in every war they participated. Yeah. For example, me being from Poltava, uh you know about Poltava battle between uh Sweden and Russian Empire. So uh You assume too much of me.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

No, you don't you don't well there are stories that are coming back from that times that Russian army it was uh it was supported uh first it was supported by um Ukrainian ruler Mazeppa and uh but he knew what's gonna happen if Russians win. So at the end of the day he switched for Swedish because Swedes uh promised uh independence to Ukraine in in in as a part of uh Sweden Kingdom, Swedish Kingdom, but independence. So he uh at the end he switched the side for Swedish. But unfortunately, Sweden army lost to Russian army and uh when Russian army uh before the battle, when Russian army was uh going back, they left just everything burned out after themselves in order to not leave any supplies for Swedish army. So the same I expect they they will do here. They will they will probably kill a lot of civilians, they will probably uh burn uh fields, they will they will just uh I don't know they will they they will just destroy everything. That's uh what I'm afraid of.

SPEAKER_00

I suppose hope has nothing to do with it, but let's hope that doesn't uh happen. But um look, um I'm really happy that to hear that the family's doing well and that you're also considering the circumstances doing well, and I really appreciate you giving me some of your time today. And uh really I am uh I'm in admiration of um what you're doing um throughout all of the you know the horror and chaos, and um so yeah, there's that um it's really really impressive, you know, what you're doing, and um maybe you should tell the audience there will be links to the various socials where they can get the limited edition hoodies, um, but you should also just tell them once again where to find it and also what it's going to go towards, so what their money is going to buy.

SPEAKER_01

Sure, thank you very much, Ryan. Thank you for supporting this initiative for spreading the word about Ukraine. Uh yeah, speaking about our initiative, it's called Hoodies for Goodies. So be a goodie, get a hoodie for for your donation. It works like that. We get requests from directly from people we know who are the front are at the front lines. They request often those are uh 4x4 vehicles or drones or uh thermal vision devices, thermoscopes. We get these requests and we collect donations and we uh deliver this uh equipment directly to end users and we report it. You can get all the details on my Instagram. Uh this month's the last month's hoodies are almost all sold out. We just got a one or two. Uh but in June we'll start a new design and new campaign, and we will collect uh more donations. You can already uh start and donate uh depending on size of your donations. You will get hoodie, t-shirt, or banded shopper bag. Uh to get a hoodie uh we ask for a donation of at least 200 euro. Uh in this way we will cover costs for local manufacturer uh on the minimal price and also be able to donate uh at least 150 will go to donations. So for t-shirt it's 100 euro and for shopper bag it's 50 euro. Everything that comes less than 50 euro is very much appreciated as well, and we will send out postcards with uh sticker packs. Uh I I I will show you later. So we have uh branded sticker packs, you can use it on your computer or any stickers.

SPEAKER_00

Great stuff, man. Um thank you again.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you very much. Thank you. It was really uh uh nice to talk to someone uh who can share this uh with the world because you know the more we speak, the more uh we are focused on this uh problem. Sorry for the background noise.

SPEAKER_00

So sorry about all the ambient noise there. Alexander is uh very, very busy, right? And he's always on the move. So it makes sense that um I caught him in uh in a public place, and you know, uh he still gave all that time, uh, which was you know so generous, so amazing. Um he doesn't necessarily have the freedom to just find quiet spaces these days. And I think his uh story is uh it's likely very common uh throughout Ukraine at the moment. Just a regular person who has now gone into overdrive. They keep up their current job, so they make sure they still get the bills paid, but then all the other time is spent on volunteering organizations, helping out other people, organizing things within their own direct community. And it sounds like his community and Poltova have done um many remarkable things, and so this initiative that Alexander is doing now with limited edition merch is just fucking genius. I'm sure you'll agree with me. I hope you all go out, as many as you as possible and get those limited edition jumpers. I've got a feeling this will become um quite a big campaign, and so you'll have a lot of signaling value if you can get on one of these earlier uh jumpers. But anyway, thank you so much for listening and um please do consider leaving something with Alexander. If um donating money doesn't feel right to you, I completely understand and get it. Um but maybe just follow him on Instagram and offer the support um other ways uh that you can as well, because it's uh completely a wild thing that's happening over there. You know, Alexander is a guy exactly like you and me. Yet he happened to live in a country that got invaded by people who unfortunately don't have much of a say in their own lives. I'm just thinking about the Russian military here, but who knows? Such a complicated and dark hole uh to try and uh figure out. So I'm not casting any judgment there, but um do consider helping out Alexander. Thank you so much for listening so far. And um, of course, what is my ambition for this podcast? I don't think I need to say on this one, guys. Um if you listen to any other podcast, you'll hear me explain it there. Um but I don't feel like it's maybe it feels inappropriate to chill in here now. But anyway, thank you so much. Please tune in for the next few episodes. I've got some bangers coming. All the best bye bye.